The Be Unstoppable Podcast made its hotly anticipated debut on the UD Industry Takeover stage with Ben Wynter at the helm, featuring the inimitable Darcus Beese, a true titan of the music industry with a career spanning over 30 years at the very top of his game. Elsa Monteith reports…
As the man behind some of the most iconic and influential names in the music industry, from Amy Winehouse and Florence and the Machine to the triple threat of the Sugababes, Darcus Beese has pioneered the way for young Black music professionals looking to get in the game. Having recently released his book, “Rebel With a Cause”, Darcus is a force to be reckoned with, and shared his thoughts generously with the audience and podcast founder and host, Ben Wynter.
The inaugural episode of The Be Unstoppable Podcast made its debut on the UD Industry Takeover stage, a vital conversation travelling through Darcus’ incredible journey from sweeping hair in a salon, to being the first Black CEO of a major frontline label. With Ben Wynter at the helm and Darcus Beese in the chair, we gained insight into Darcus’ early life growing up in London, the son of two Black Panther activist parents living in what Darcus fondly describes as “South Weezy”. “Race was very central to my upbringing”, Darcus shares, “I knew about racism when I was too young to know about racism… but you definitely grow up knowing you have to stand for something”. Darcus shares stories about having to go to demonstrations and marches and how it gave a sense of justice early on – “it gave me more than just an opinion, a bit of lived experience that I was able to take forward.”
Darcus’ career is a remarkable ascent from humble beginnings to the heady heights of top seniority in the music business, but the fight for his Blackness has remained a constant throughout his life. “I figured out from those moments with dad and mum that protests can happen in many different ways”, he acknowledges, but on reflecting on his own form of protest, Darcus shares that his fight was “to be successful as a Black man”. This success is undeniable with a huge number of accolades to his name, one that he shares with his father, being a legacy that demands recognition.
Moving into the current climate of the music industry, Ben asks the age-old question – “do you think that the current generation are still keen to pay their dues in the way that you did?” Darcus doesn’t hold back; “I think that everybody wants it to be about them. Everybody is Instagram famous and everybody is a CEO of their instagram page without delivering anything. I know that technology evolves and changes the delivery system, but it shouldn’t change the strength of the art or the ambition of your music to travel beyond the fucking M25”. Darcus remains true to his values in knowing the difference between art and business, paying homage to the lengths he went to to excel in his field.
Returning to this idea of the algorithm, Ben poses the question of artists being told to go online to find their community. “What happened to the traditional, analogue methods like performing in front of an audience, engaging, conversing, meeting people? The industry has gone the other way and said you can do it all digitally, and you’re seeing the results of that with a lot of people, even labels, but how do you make the two co-exist together?” Darcus responds with ambiguity; “I don’t know, and the reason I say I don’t know is that there used to be two or three years where a band or an artist were allowed to just get on with it and weren’t pressured or pushed to get found by an algorithm. All of a sudden the data is doing this and there’s A&R at the door saying they can give you things. What the fuck happened?” This reference to the art of “going viral” and cheating the algorithm at its own game is an interesting one, and something Darcus explores further; “You’ve got to understand that as much as it’s a business, you’ve got to make something spectacular. Not everyone can do it. The quicker you get there, the quicker you’ll finish. I’ve been around for 30 years to know. I don’t even know what “streams” means nowadays, I just know what success smells like, I know what it tastes like.”
Speaking of success, Darcus was the man behind the era-defining voice of Amy Winehouse, signing her for her album, Frank. Ben asks Darcus to explain how he set up Amy’s first album as he shares they didn’t have that out-the-block single, and had to utilise a different strategy to get the audience behind the album. “We just backed a jazz artist in a mainstream way”, Darcus shares, “the generic version of success back then was marked by a chart position, but I knew by the way that she was getting reviewed and the gigs she was doing that something was happening”.
Darcus speaks to the importance of allowing Amy to develop herself, and how she had years of experience before arriving at Darcus’ door.
“Because of fucking TikTok, everybody is getting thrown up and being offered a record deal now. It’s like being the first ambulance arriving at the scene of an accident – those couple of years of development of getting it right, getting it wrong, not being pressured about people’s opinions and feeding live into the storytelling and being able to sell a ticket rather than a like or a stream, that’s work”. It can be hard to hear, but Darcus addresses the room; “having success too soon is not sustainable, you’ve got to give people proper development”.
Ben steers the conversation to how Darcus advocates for long-term deals that allow artists the time to develop properly, but acknowledges the holes in the architecture of record deals in years gone by. “When we were negotiating deals, they were always predicated on stuff not working. It was always based on “If it doesn’t work, you have to pay us X”, and they weren’t really built to keep people in the deal. Any deal that I overpay to get is not here anymore. So what does that tell you? It tells you I’m really bad at spending money, but also that once you start paying over the odds, it’s never going to work, because it’s not sustainable.”
Speaking to some of the artists Darcus has pioneered like the Sugababes, he references their rich and extensive discography. “You listen to those records and they stand the test of time. You’re not just creating cannon fodder, you’re creating catalogue. As I say in the book, as technology evolves, the art should still remain amazing. You don’t go to the gallery to see ordinary art. You don’t go to the football to see ordinary footballers. So why put out ordinary music by ordinary people?”
Ben asks a controversial question; “is it ordinary music by ordinary people? Or is it just that people like us are ageing out?” Darcus responds instantly; “not at all. I’m talking about the 1%. It’s not because they’re doing something ordinary”. The age-old question of how we achieve that success and reach that 1% is raised, and Darcus answers that “90% of success is just turning up early – not on time, but early. A lot of people miss that. Getting up early gives people trust in you that you’re going to arrive and put the heat on, so when everyone turns up and the room is warm”. This warmth comes through in Darcus’ advice, and whilst it’s hard to hear, his words ring true for the artists in the room. “People should allow themselves the time and ability to be great. And if you can’t be great, be very good. But if you can’t be very good, don’t be ordinary. Go and do a nine to five and let music be your hobby.”
Ben moves on to discuss Darcus’ latest venture into the independent sector, a space that accounts for approximately a third of the market share. “You’ve taken a bold step away from major labels for the first time in 30 plus years, and you’re going independent yourself, launching Darko Artist Partnerships. Can you share a little about what that venture is about and what your ambitions are for the company?” Darcus wastes no time in addressing the elephant in the room; “the major record label ecosystem is broken, it’s not future proof. The direction of travel especially with majors not bringing new artists to the marketplace, they’re just becoming big distributors who acquire talent. They won’t develop the talent as that’s not their business, there’s too much happening in emerging markets”.
“For me and for a lot of artists, music drives a lot of their other business. And if you’re in the record business, you don’t have any right to their other business”. Speaking to a type of deal you’d call the “360”, Darcus talks about how record dealers tend to try to get a small percentage of their artist’s live, their merch, and their branding. “For me, moving forward in terms of where I think the industry is going, I’m thinking what services can I offer in partnership with an artist and their manager, where they can keep the lion’s share of their offering, whilst bringing them to market in a digitally native way”. In a bold and wise move, Darcus shares his intentions; “I don’t just want to be a record dealer, I want partnerships”.
“People sign to people, they don’t sign to the company. So the offering to the people has to be amazing”. Ben poses the question of what that new org chart can look like for a new music company. “I used to have “Recordings” in my title, “Darko Recordings”, but it just felt old and obsolete. We keep talking about A&R, Artists and Repertoire, we do everything now with the artists in terms of it all. So I was like, we’re not Artists and Repertoire anymore, we’re more like Artists and Reputation”. We’re shifting into a new dimension where fans are at the centre of the business, something that Darcus references once again. “Just getting your record played doesn’t keep anyone engaged”.
Ben moves onto a part of Darcus’ identity that has only been uncovered recently. “What led you to your ADHD diagnosis, and how has that impacted you on both a personal and professional level?” Ben asks. Darcus shares that he was diagnosed because his son got diagnosed. “When I got into the music business, it was a bit of a super power, because I could hyperfocus. There was enough stuff happening everyday that I didn’t get bored. But as much as ADHD was good for me being impulsive and making quick decisions, it was also my kryptonite because I would manage things through the lens of ADHD, especially when I became a leader. I would expect too much of people because I could have 20 tabs open and I could make 10 records at the same time from all different genres. I hate people that can’t keep the same energy.”
“When you get diagnosed, you realise that you’re not thick, and that you carry that imposter syndrome along with you right through your life. No matter how successful I was, I would always just think, what’s next? I would never look in the rear view mirror and get gassed about it. I was just onto the next because the ADHD would never give you time to sit and smell the fucking roses, or ganja”.
As the conversation comes to a close, Darcus shares a lasting note about why he wrote the book; “success comes at a cost”. Ben asks the crucial question; “what’s the cost?” Darcus responds with real kindness and empathy; “the cost is mental health. We’re all giving up something to be creative. You have to give some people a little bit of margin and leeway”.
Reporting on a live podcast in this way is unique in that there is a direct and unabridged version of the conversation readily available to be listened to at your leisure. Give Darcus and Ben’s conversation on the Be Unstoppable Podcast an unfiltered listen to on your preferred streaming platform!
You can also listen to subsequent episodes starring Mark Henry (Manager of Knucks, Tru Tribe Music), Mo Samuels (Sons of Sonix), Donae’o (artist) & Christine Osazuwa (Founder & CEO of Measure of Music).
Buy Darcus Beese ‘Rebel With A Cause: Roots, Records and Revolutions’ HERE.
Words: Elsa Monteith. A Brighton based writer and broadcaster working in and around the arts and on the radio waves.Subscribe to Elsa’s Discontented newsletter here.
Photography: Anthony Wilde
